From Kat: Harold Lewter is the perfect remedy for a wild first week of 2021. Or, as he would call it, 2020.1: Not a new year, just the next version of 2020. 

I started admiring Harold, a manager and partner at CLA, during my time at HCKR. In every email you could sense his zest for the business, his creativity, his compassion, and a personality that never left you without a smile.

Getting to know Harold better throughout this interview, he’s even more than your industry dreams could hope for. From a rapped introduction, navigating a career he didn’t plan for, and dreaming of what the business could be tomorrow, Harold has us laughing, thinking, and ready to get to work. 

We think it takes a heart of gold to fill out our lengthy questionnaire, but Harold might have one of the best. Enjoy his wisdom, his heart, and his two life mottos that we all should adopt.

Harold! We’re thrilled and honored you’re taking the time to chat with us. We’ll get into the business facts; would you introduce yourself to our readers with some “human facts”?

Absolutely! (Begins to rap) My name is Harold and I’m here to say, “I’m from the Bronx and I’m here to stay! What’s to tell about the Bronx? It’s uptown and to the right!” (hehe) …Let’s see what else, I am the youngest of 5, my interest for musical theatre began at 8 years old, when my older brother took my mom and I to see Starlight Express on Broadway, which coincidentally he would end up booking the 1st National Tour as Electra later that year.

My mom has always had a love for theater, and so we would go see shows all the time. However, I did not fall in love with musical theater until I saw Vanessa Williams in Kiss of the Spider Woman (Kander & Ebb) in 1994 (P.S. She replaced Chita Rivera). There’s this fabulous moment in the show where she comes out in a cage in this Birds of Paradise inspired costume (UGH JUST THE BEST) and she sings “Gimme Love”, during the dance break there is this fantastic Trumpet solo (I played the Trumpet from 2nd grade through High School) …I WAS HOOKED FROM THAT MOMENT ON! Also, not to mention the choreography was just to die for! 

…I could go on, but I don’t think we have time for that (so I will save the rest for my memoir one day). 

You went to Wagner College for Musical Theatre and also went on to study acting at the University of Buffalo. You taught classes and performed in Costa Rica after receiving the Promising Artists of the 21st Century award in 2006. As such an accomplished actor, what made you want to get into the representation side of things? What were the first few steps you took in transitioning to agenting/managing?

Well first let me say this, I had 0 intentions of going into representation, this all happened by happenstance. I had been working off and on throughout college and continued to work as an actor after graduating from college, and then in late Fall of 2009 a good friend of mine Mike Cruz asked me if I would come intern for him at Independent Artists Agency, and I said sure because I didn’t have anything else to do. So, there I went, and as time went on, one thing led to another and another and before I knew it was July of 2010 and I went on vacation and while I was on vacation, I got an e-mail announcing that the agency was going to be closing in a few weeks. No clue of what to do next, I said to Cyd and Mike that whatever happens next, I want to continue to help out. So, there we all went and because Cyd had only sold the roster when she left the business in 2001 we reopened her management company Cyd LeVin & Associates. 

Now, I should rewind back to the beginning because the thing that really pushed me into representation was the realization that I was getting tired of seeing actors spin their wheels, and not get the feedback they needed to move their careers forward. Being at Independent I realized quickly that as rep you could do that. 

You joined CLA in August 2010 after crossing paths with Cyd LeVin at Independent Artists Agency in late 2009. What has been the most rewarding thing to come from that partnership? 

I have always been a hard worker, but working with Cyd has taught me how to not only work hard, but how to fight for the people you believe in. As for rewarding, there have been so many rewards that have come from this partnership…when I was first starting out, I had all of the passion, but none of the training, so the first reward was training. The second reward (or rewards) was the importance of honesty, integrity and the power of building relationships, for however large this business it, it really is so very small once you really get into it, and you will do business with the same people over and over and over again, so who you are at your core is really important, especially when it comes to your clients and their livelihoods. The third reward is a true mentor who will tell me when I’m wrong and when I’m right, and I feel very fortunate to have someone like that as a friend and a business partner. 

Part of your specialty has included transitioning Broadway actors to TV/Film. Any advice for readers who are theatrical trained and looking to make the switch?

Study, study, study, study!!! It baffles me how many times an actor will walk into the office for a meeting and say, “I want to be on TV, or I want to be a Film star” and which leads me to ask, “ok, so what are you watching? What the last film you saw? Have you watched every single movie on the AFI 100? Have you watched every single Oscar Award winning film?”  and of course, the answer is no, no, no and no. So, how can you want to do something and not have studied it. A doctor doesn’t just wake up one day and say, “I think I will go be a heart surgeon today” no, they study and study and study, and study. As an artist, you should be doing the same. You have to know the craft inside and out. As an actor and even as a rep, I am still a student of the craft. Everyone that knows me, knows that I keep my iPad open while I’m working so that I can watch television or films. 

At the end of the day, it boils down to understanding that when working in TV or Film you as the actor are responsible for telling the truth. On stage you play to the last row, so everything is heightened including your most grounded moments. On Television and on Film it is about real life and living in the truth of the moment. There is no hiding from the camera, and quite frankly why would you want too? It is the vainest medium out there.

It’s no secret that there is a severe underrepresentation of agents and managers of color. What walls need to come down to make a career in representation more accessible?

There are so many walls that need to come down, but the first is you have to go to the HBCU’s and the Colleges & Universities that have a heavy BIPOC enrollment, especially the inner city schools and recruit. Contradictory to that, I have realized that we place so much emphasis on higher education, but we forget that many of the agents and managers we admire did not go to college or for that matter finish High School. Until Talent Representation is taught at the University level, it remains an apprentice trade, which means we shouldn’t be afraid of scouting “talent” early on, no different than construction unions who source talent at the High School level.

What’s the change in our business you hope to see coming out of this time of a racial reckoning and a global pandemic?

Well, I think we are already beginning to see that there is now an expectation for Truth and Transparency in the Entertainment Industry as a whole. What I am hoping is that the playing field begins to level out now, and that it doesn’t feel like a never-ending uphill battle. Truth be told what I want most is for the word “diversity” to stop being such a hot button topic. When Cyd and I re-opened CLA in 2010, it was never about oh we need to get a black actor, a white actor, a Asian actor or LatinX actor, it was just we want talent, the color or race or gender didn’t matter, it still doesn’t matter to us, we want to represent the best (periodt). 

We’ve used the metaphor of a mountain to be analogous to our career accomplishments, dreams, and changes. We feel a lot of our reader’s “climb” is on pause. Has your mountain ever changed? Is it changing now? What’s keeping you moving?

My mountain has changed several times throughout the last 10 years, and I finally feel like I’m on the mountain that I want to be on and most of all I know what my purpose is. I have always had two life mottos, “innovate or die” and “never stop learning, never stop growing” and 2020 has really challenged me to reaffirm my commitment to those mottos and to also challenge and push myself. Pre-Pandemic I was feeling STUCK, in the midst of the pandemic in June I was feeling like the world was passing me by and that I needed to shift my focus and do something else. In July after a client, I had spent so much time developing and putting the building blocks of his career in place dropped me I started to put building blocks in place to build a company that was focused on Diversity and Training for positions outside of the performance realm, because I felt like I didn’t want to be in Talent Representation anymore and also because I felt like I didn’t know who I was without representing this person anymore. Low and behold in August, I took a trip to the beach and it brought me back to the center, my center. I realized I was listening to everyone else’s thoughts and opinions, and worrying about what everyone else was doing, my focus was on the wrong things. Now, I’m solely focused on myself and building CLA Partners into the global powerhouse I believe it can be. Can’t stop won’t stop! 

RAPID FIRE:

Favorite Quaran-TV: The Queen’s Gambit is the best thing I’ve seen all Quarantine. 

Quaran-reads: Currently reading Television Development by Bob Levy

Exercise routine (if you are into that): I was doing so good with taking my lunch time 3mile walk up until September when things started to come back online, and we got busy. I really need to get back to that. 

Favorite food: Obsessed with Greek Yogurt, Honey & All of the berries I can get my hands on!!

You can only choose one, tennis or golf: Tennis

Thing you have missed most since March: Being with people

Quick advice to actors looking for rep: Put yourself out there, don’t wait for permission. Also, DO NOT BE A SUITCASE ACTOR and follow some given list that someone has prescribed for you. If there’s an agency you really want to get a meeting with, be persistent, keep showing them more of your work. I guarantee you someone is always looking at submissions, especially if they’re doing their job right. 

Favorite part of the job: A clients first major booking…nothing better than making that call. 

Religious, Spiritual, or Nah: Definitely spiritual!

Social Media Feelings: Social media and I have a real love hate relationship. 

Advice to your younger self: FOCUS LEWTER!

Social Media Handles: @itsmrlewter (on insta) and @clapartners (on insta)

Anything you’d like to promote?: NOPE…except if you haven’t watched The Queen’s Gambit on Netflix, watch it.

From Peter: There have been many moments over the past year where I’ve been extraordinarily grateful The Obvious Path exists. This moment is no exception. Some of you might know that Kat got an opportunity to become an agent at DGRW in a pandemic inspired tectonic shift at that agency. It’s her dream job. And, as we are a dream chasing blog, it seems appropriate to take a moment to celebrate, reflect, and express our gratitude.

If you haven’t, it might be fun to go back and read Kat’s first feature which was written in October of 2019 (and was put on our website January 2020.)

I’ll only say this: What I admire most about my wife is her ability to plant seeds. As I often remind her, she plants so many seeds she can’t keep track of all of them. I like to think my greatest gift to Kat is being her historian. I have a knack of remembering the goals she sets and the offhand comments she makes. But here’s the thing about Kat- even if she’s not neurotically watching the seeds, she’s dutifully tending to her garden, the big picture, every day. We’re as likely as any couple to get “lost in the weeds.” Especially in the age of COVID, we were unsure if our seeds would ever come to fruition or if New York would be possible. Thankfully, Kat has been dutifully planting seeds our three years back in NYC, we turned around and one of them had blossomed into a beautiful bouquet. I hope Kat inspires you the way she inspires me. Happy planting...

So… senior agent, huh? I guess dreams do come true.

Yes. They. Do. I’m as surprised and humbled as anyone would be to get a job (any job) during this time. To fulfill a lifelong goal and end up in a dream position… I’m just beyond.

As with many job opportunities, there were a million tiny things that happened to make it possible. 98% of them had absolutely nothing to do with me. In many ways, some of the things that had frustrated me about my own path came to play a pivotal part in this role. 

Namely, the fact I started as a voiceover assistant- something multiple people told me would be the end of my dreams of being a “legit” agent. But, you know, after a 3-month internship I needed a job quickly and that was my only opportunity. When the company I was working for graciously allowed me to get out of the voiceover industry, I wanted to go to the theatrical desk. That didn’t work out, so I was sent to work with the on-camera agent. That gave me enough contacts to interview for my job at HCKR, where my responsibilities were even heavier on the on-camera side. And, you’re sensing the theme here, but Matt Redmond (now owner of DGRW) has always been a theatrical rockstar and was wanting to partner with someone with who had more TV/Film experience. It’s one of those checkpoints where I have to stop and think: “My path is being guided.” I continue to show up, do the work, and try to do my best Anna (aka “The Next Right Thing”). But, in the end, this is all bigger than me.

I’m going to make you tell your other checkpoint as well…

I mean, you would. Especially since you had to point it out to me.

You all might remember in my first feature I had talked about how I knew it was time for me to move on from acting. In 2014, I told Peter that I only had two roles left that I really wanted to play: Natalie in Next to Normal, which I did in Cleveland during Peter’s first year of grad school and Ariel from The Little Mermaid, which I did in Hong Kong the following year. A beautiful closure that not many actors get.

These days, I spend most of my time meeting individually with DGRW’s lovely roster. Peter looked at my schedule one day and said, “Do you realize what clients you’re meeting with this afternoon?” It was Alice Ripley (who won the Tony for Next to Normal) and Jodi Benson (The original voice of Ariel in The Little Mermaid). It was a full circle inside of a full circle. Another checkpoint that the universe put in front of me that said: “Why do you ever doubt anything? I’ve got you.”

We’ve been prepping or writing this blog for just under a year. What has The Obvious Path done for you in that time?

Personally, it’s helped restore my trust in the composition of our industry. It’s not like I thought everyone was heartless, but the transactional part of our business can highlight the colder side in all of us. I’ve realized having a public document that states a desire for humanity, however, offers an invitation for humans to come find us. And they do. The amount of time every person puts into their interview, with no reward, is humbling. Peter and I have a lot of lovely people reach out or say a kind thing to us in passing. Not to mention, we’ve made new friends or solidified friendships with every person we’ve featured. It’s given us an excuse to reach out to someone new, learn more about people that fascinate us, and express what we admire about them in our introductions. 

Professionally, it did the thing we never dreamed it would. It grew my network to the point it really helped getting my job at DGRW. One of our connections, whom I had never met before our interview earlier this year, really advocated for me. My name not only ended up “in the hat” because of this person, but I believe they made me a frontrunner before I even interviewed. And, this is the cliche part that we always hear and never believe, but that person is one of our best friends now. 

Personally-Professionally, (is that a thing?) The Obvious Path exists in my brain as an evolving thesis. It constantly reminds or shapes me towards my why, our features all introduce new concepts that keep me thinking, and producing this content challenges me to keep living up to the dream of the industry we want to be a part of. I heard on a podcast earlier this year the Flannery O’Connor quote “I write because I don’t know what I think until I read what I say.” In our case, I feel like that’s true. It’s like a Google Doc that we get some brilliant people to contribute to. As we sit with those words or write our own words, we learn the articulation of our feelings. 

Above all, years ago, Peter and I got some marriage advice from a person we really respect. They said, “Figure out every way where you can do life together.” The Obvious Path is Peter and I’s way of making our parallel careers intersect. I find working, writing, brainstorming, listening, learning, and dreaming much more fulfilling when I get to do it with him.

What are your goals in your new position?

The pandemic, our industry shutdown, and our country’s reckoning with race are all frustrating and heartbreaking moments to live in. That said, I don’t know that there is a better time to start a position like the one I’m in. It’s a continual reminder that our industry has major flaws, I don’t know all the answers, and we’re going to need to work together for change.

I’ve always viewed the agent as, primarily, a position of service. We submit our actors, we fight for them to be seen, and we negotiate the deal... Then, I read a blog post by Olivia Hernandez on the Ensemblist. That article did a lot of things for me. 

One, it made me delineate the difference between an agent’s “power” and “responsibility”. When I was an actor, I viewed my agent as an authority. Therefore, I viewed them as “powerful”. The negative words they might use about my talent, a show they didn’t like, or how the business worked. Even if they were being encouraging, my lens of them as an authority figure was not helpful.

As an agent, I realize what I viewed as “power” when I was an actor are just my, or any agent’s, “responsibilities”. I have a responsibility to find actors that I really believe in. I have a responsibility to nourish relationships with my clients and Casting Directors. I have a responsibility to fight for equity, whether that is the amount of money a client is taking home or who I’m submitting for a role. But none of that should be confused as power. Agents and actors are a team: Equally powerful with different responsibilities.

Secondly, Olivia broke down the word we use to describe my job: Representation. And, for that matter; Agency. What I find inspiring, and particularly necessary in the time ahead, is growing our actor’s personal agency at their agency. In regards to relationships, we need to reinfuse that word, “representation” into how we work. It is imperative that we, as our client’s representation, represent them not only as artists, but as human beings. 

And that’s the thing I find most invigorating about the conversations we have at DGRW. Our team, with Matt at the helm and our colleague, Kaitlin, approaches everything with an attitude of adaptability. We’re reimagining ways the agency supports actors, the way we advocate for them, and morphing the actor/agent relationship for the better. 

Can we get an industry update?

So… The good news is that TV and film seem to be coming back in pieces. I’m writing this in the first week of September and we had two clients on set this week. I will say we’re getting more availability checks for our more established actors than normal. Part of keeping shows simple is using core casts and inviting actors back that have been on the show/have significant credits. That said, some casting offices seem to be operating with the intention of taking the extra time to see tapes from newer talent.

As we know, theatre is going to be tougher. I remember when Joseph Haj said The Guthrie wasn’t going to produce shows until March 2021. That, at the time, was a wake up call. Now, all these months later, that seems optimistic. The truth is we just don’t know. I know the days are slow, but the news can change fast. As is widely reported, there are SOME theatrical productions happening. I suspect there will continue to be creative ways to employ actors in the coming months. But it will likely be for the smaller percentage and those that have worked more.

As we’ve seen in corporations, the pandemic has made the rich get even richer. I think that is true for our industry too- the more credits you already have the better off you will be. And I know that isn’t great news. What I’m telling my clients is the same thing I’m telling my husband: You’ve got to take care of you. If that means staying in class and having an outlet, please do it. If that means getting away from the business and focusing on survival, family, or mental health, please do it. Through this pandemic, we’ve all been reminded how important it is to prioritize family, health, passions, and healthy mindsets. If there is a “new normal”, I hope it’s one where we reincorporate those practices with more intention.

Here it comes…  Where are you on your mountain?

I feel like it is important to acknowledge when I answered this question in the first feature, my next mountain was making the climb to an agent position. In that sense, I’ve reached a summit! It’s been enormously fulfilling to reach a goal I’ve been working towards and I take so much pride in where I ended up.

And then we move onto what we always know in asking this question: The summit of one mountain is the base of the next. 2020 has been a year of becoming more aware of the mountain range that we’re all on and how important it is to not become singularly focused on one goal. That’s when I really, really love being an agent. I feel like I get to find people on their own individual mountains and aid their ascent in any way we can. As we go on that journey, those clients will take me places I never would have seen otherwise. I’ve said this before, but it really is true: My dream is helping other people achieve their dreams.

RAPID FIRE:

Favorite Quaran-TV: The Great, Away, I May Destroy You, Unorthodox, Never Have I Ever… I’ve been watching SO much TV.

Quarn-reads: Peter and I have been guilty of what NPR’s Code Switch would call going to the “Gym on New Year’s: for Racism.” We’ve been a part of a discussion book club where we’ve read How to Be an Antiracist, I’m Still Here, White Fragility, The New Jim Crow, and The Fire Next Time essays by James Baldwin. We, obviously, have a lot more reading and learning to do. I realize I should’ve started this years ago, but now I’m doing my best to stay committed to education and subsequent actions as a result of these learnings. 

Exercise routine (if you’re into that): Currently, we’ve been doing Orangetheory at Home. I’m working out 5 days a week for the first time in my life and mama’s legs are sore!!

Favorite food: Cancelling out my workouts with homemade pizza, beef stroganoff, and Häagen-Dazs Caramel Cone since 2020.

Thing you miss most: The lights dimming in the theatre before a show… Can’t wait until we get to do it again.

Places you’ve spent this year: Peter and I vacationed in Italy to start 2020. That feels like a LIFETIME ago… We went to California to stay with my in-laws for 5 months, the majority of shelter-in-place. Quarantined in NYC for two weeks, an emergency trip to Texas for a week to care for a family member, and now back in quarantine in NYC. Home is people. Not a place. 

Hardest part of being an agent: Woof… Not being able to help everyone. It literally keeps me up at night. There are so many genuinely pure, genuinely talented people. I hate that I don’t have the horsepower to get everyone where they need to go. 

Tips for communication with potential rep during a pandemic: Here’s the keys to the Kingdom in my book, which I mostly attribute to the teachings of Jen Waldman. Act within your integrity. 

Don’t spend all your time trying to second guess what’s happening on our end. Control what you can on your end. If you have material you feel great about sending, if you write a pitch email that is well thought out and true to who you are: by all means, shoot the shot. You never know. 

I spend a lot of time curating emails for casting that never get responded to as well. I realize we all have a hypothetical understanding of the volume of emails some industry folks receive, though I imagine we all still underestimate how much traffic certain emails have. Regardless, not getting a response always stings a little bit. But I can assure you, I feel so much more at peace when I send an email within my integrity. That means it’s personal, it’s specific, and it’s human. I’m at peace hitting send no matter the outcome. 

Social media feelings: Facebook sucks, right? Why don’t I delete it?

Social media handles: We really gonna do this back to back? Lol. @kat_hargrave 

Anything you’d like to promote: If you have a wishlist or ideas that agents could better serve actors, could you email me at obviouspath@gmail.com? I would SO appreciate ideas to add to an ever evolving list.

Side Note From Kat: Brett's reputation, as an agent and a person, runs far ahead of him. As a performer, he worked consistently. As a student, he received his Master of Music Degree, with an advanced certificate in Vocal Pedagogy, from NYU Steinhardt. Now, he's worked at Carlton, Goddard, and Freer ("CGF Talent" on the resumé) for the past seven years, climbing his way to agent five years ago. 

Brett's thrown a lot at the wall and, somehow, found a way to make all of it stick. Naturally, he was a dream interview for what we stand for here at The Obvious Path. Pre-Coronavirus, we set up an in-person interview at his apartment and arranged to have it supervised by the Associate Director of Public Relations at the Public Theatre. (Okay... that's his wife, Laura. How COOL though, right??)

And... we left giddy. Every person who implored us to meet them couldn’t have done them justice. What was supposed to be a 20-30 minute interview turned into a three-hour lesson in life, attitude, marriage, the business, and laughs. He and Laura are authentically human, constantly striving to be better, and completely devoid of the arrogance that normally accompanies those of their immense success. 

Don't worry, we didn't transcribe all three hours. We did, however, go off script a lot. And it's worth every word. Brett generously navigates us through life decisions, pursuing happiness, actor/client communication, and how life has changed during this pandemic. 

We started this blog because we wanted to highlight those in our business that are sincerely good people. And we've gotten to meet a lot of wonderful folks. Brett? He's one of the best.

Brett, we’re really thrilled that you agreed to do this. You sandwiched a successful acting career between receiving your BFA in Musical Theatre Performance from Western Michigan University and a Master of Music Degree from New York University's Steinhardt School with an Advanced Certification in Vocal Pedagogy. What was your life before agenting? 

Sure! In high school I was really big into three things: hockey, choir, and musicals. Sadly, I was only good at two of the three of these. I’ll let you guess which two. Choir and musicals dominated my every thought, every spare moment I had, and any money I earned, borrowed, or found in the couch cushions. When the college conversation came along it was: “are you going to a music theatre program, a theatre program, or, you know, a regular job?” as we called it in my family.

Eventually, my Mom knew how much I loved singing and music so she offered to meet me in the middle and encouraged a degree in both education and music--that way I could teach choir or things in that realm. If I went that route, she would pay for it. So, I said sure! You know, I’m fortunate, because I’m terrible at math, but I’m a bit geeky when it comes to the voice and I was able to read and write music despite it being very mathematical. It’s just a different part of my brain so it seemed like a good fit. 

I went to Alma College which is super small -- it has like 1,400 people. You could literally run across the full campus in 2-3 minutes. (laughs) What I loved about it was that I made the most unbelievable friends and their choir was amazing. What I didn’t love about it was that there were no elements of musical theatre whatsoever, it was strictly choir. Two years in, I said to my mom that I was unhappy and just couldn’t do it any longer. I then applied to a few big schools: Boston Conservatory, University of Michigan, Michigan State, and Western Michigan University. I got into several of them, but wasn’t really good at the competitive element and these schools really required that. We’ll circle back to that later.

I chose to go to Western Michigan and get my BFA in Music Performance and I loved it. BUT I came out of Western Michigan and knew nothing about the business, moved to the city, you know, and got my teeth kicked in for about a year and a half. (laughs) 

Did you have representation?

I was lucky enough to get an agent out of my showcase and that was life changing. The person who signed me is still an agent today and I love them with my whole heart. All of my success as an actor started with that office and was because of them. I worked regionally a bunch, had some close calls on Broadway, and was introduced to the world of soap operas.  As a weird side note, I paid my way through Western Michigan as a basic paramedic. My brother worked for a company at the time as one and recommended that I get the basic certification to help financially. So I did, and it did!

I say that because I ended up going in for As The World Turns as a paramedic that said one line, “Okay let’s go.” They needed to have a “real” parametric say that line, I guess?  Regardless, I ended up landing the gig. (laughs) I then went over to their sister show, Guiding Light, and became a regular fixture there. This all started as a co-star, which I think was called a “u/5” at the time. It was always me as the paramedic and then an extra wheeling in the patient. It was super helpful, because I already knew the jargon. And I wouldn’t call myself a “advisor” on the show, but sometimes the writers would write vital signs that were just totally crazy. I would be like, “If we say these lines, it means the person is dead. Do we want that?” (laughs) Eventually, Guiding Light made that paramedic always be me. Recurring on Guiding Light was amazing. Someone is hurt every week, so I always had a lot of work to do. (laughs). I did that for just over 2 years.

This all took place around the time I met my future wife-to-be, Laura. Guiding Light was eventually canceled and then As the World Turns was right behind it. When that happened, I officially returned to the auditioning world but couldn’t shake this feeling of discontent.  I had the realization, with the help of Laura, that I needed a change. I just couldn’t get excited about working again and frankly, I didn’t feel ‘good at this’ anymore. Soap acting, to me, was not acting, it was indicating and I forgot how to tell a story, find honesty in my work, and be effective in the audition room. My auditions became worse and I started to really doubt myself. The theatrical world had become so unfamiliar to me. I had gone to a different place mentally and couldn't really get to the other side.

I decided to go and find it! I decided to officially go back to school and get my Masters. I applied to several schools (again) and chose NYU-Steinhardt. When registering for classes, they asked if I would like to get an advanced certificate studying Vocal Pedagogy (which is understanding and acknowledgement of how the voice works). I said yes immediately. It’s very science-y. I’m obsessed with Vocal Pedagogy. I love it. (laughs) When I’ve had too many drinks with my Vocal Pedagogy friends, this is all we want to talk about. No one wants to hang out with us. (laughs) That’s how much I love it. 

Fast forward two years, I finished up and came out of school and felt like I was ready to be an actor again. I signed with a different agent, got a job right away, and was immediately unhappy again. Laura, who mind you, has supported me through, like, ten jobs said in her loving and sweet way, “Babe, you’re not happy. Do something that makes you happy. ” She had just started her full-time job at The Public, we were engaged, things were moving, and I then decided I knew where the other side was. It was no longer on that side of the table.

Obviously, not the “obvious path” towards agenting. (laughs) What pushed you towards agenting? How was that transition?

I applied to tons of jobs and no one would give me an interview for a free position. I was the weird 30-year-old man competing with casting assistants who were like 10! It was tough! Then one day, I saw a very witty internship ad on Playbill and applied. It made me chuckle. Joel Carlton (Co-founder and Partner of CGF Talent) called me in and I immediately recognized him. He had actually tried to sign me as an actor when I showcased out of Western years before when he was with another office. It was one of those crazy small world moments. We chatted, laughed, and had a great report together. At the end of the interview, Joel told me he had just filled the position right before my meeting, but wanted to be respectful and still honor our time together. I thought that was really kind of him, but was cranky that I wasn’t going to get the job.  We shook hands, and I remember he held my hand for an extra beat and there was this kind of funny look on his face. I said thank you again and left to go and meet Laura in the park because we were going to a show or something. Fifteen minutes later, my phone rang and it was him. He said, “If we were to not offer this other person the job, would you start on Tuesday?” I talked to Laura, with him waiting for me on the phone, and said yes. I took the job as an unpaid intern and the rest is history. I’ve been there for nearly seven years now. I’ve been an agent for the past 5 -- first starting as an intern, then assistant, then junior agent, and now franchised agent.  

I think that is actually one of my fondest memories. Working with Joel, Michael, and Christopher has been one of the best things to ever happen to me. There isn’t a day that goes by that I’m not appreciative to them nor a day that goes by that I don’t appreciate what Joel did for me personally. He recently passed after a long and valiant fight with cancer. I miss him every day.

Did you know you were going to be happy agenting?

Not until it was an official thing. I knew I loved actors and their intense, emotional, brilliant, hilarious, elliequent, and frustrating energy. No matter what I did, it needed to involve them. So being their advocate made sense. Working with them as a partner made sense. I mean, nobody knows actors better than other actors. Nobody understands or has more empathy for the ridiculousness that’s asked of them every single day. It’s absurd! The amount of times I’ve had to call an actor at 4pm with an appointment time for the following morning that has 16 pages of sides is significant. But it’s those conversations and that kind of trust that makes a strong relationship. Truly, most days of the week I come home in awe of what they are able to accomplish and achieve in the business and audition room. Feeling like we are partners in it together has always been my approach. If everyone does their work, then it can be a really great relationship together. It’s really important to trust one another. That trust is and should exist throughout our industry. Personally, my relationship with casting directors is another thing I hold sacred. There just needs to be trust and collaboration there too. It’s the only way to navigate the audition process where all parties benefit and the right people get the job.  Honestly, casting directors jobs are unbelievably difficult. I don’t know how they do it and don’t think I could.

You beat us to our next question, which we didn’t plan, but you knew it wasn’t casting?

Oh I knew and know it’s not for me. In my opinion, they are the unsung heroes of the creative process. Their work is unbelievably hard. Casting houses serve two masters: the producers and teams who are casting the show, and the agent who wants it to be their clients who populate it. That is a gatekeeper role that I want nothing to do with. (laughs) I’m certain you can hear it in my tone, but I have nothing but respect and admiration for them. They do not get enough accolades for their work, but it’s definitely something I recognize when I’m seeing shows, watching TV or movies, and reading casting releases. I know that profession is not for me, but the exchanges I have with them everyday are really important and is where that trust I talked about before comes into play. At CGF we break up our accounts by casting houses and that has allowed me to build some strong relationships with those who I work with daily. Tara’s entire office; Stephen at Carnahan’s; Jordan, Heidi, and Kate at The Public; and Bonnie, Steven, and Zoe at Finnigan/Jacobs, to just name a few. I need to talk to these people every day about clients, projects, and logistical nonsense. Why not have that exchange be pleasant and beneficial to all parties? Casting needs to set up a session and I likely have people that fit what they’re looking for. Our communication and trust is how people get appointments and how casting gets a great group of actors in front of their team. There are times to push, there are times to listen, and there are times to get out of the way. The trust with your casting colleagues is how you navigate the process.

What do you think about sunk costs? Now, it’s obvious that your career now is so informed by what you studied and your life experience as an actor. But did you ever feel like you had leveraged your entire scholastic career pursuing something that isn’t exactly what you studied? 

Somewhat. It was hard getting a Masters in Music and a degree in vocal pedagogy and then going into a career that technically has nothing to do with either of those on face value. The job description does not list anything that I just spent a quarter of a million dollars on and that’s hard  (laughs). But what I ultimately see and what I take comfort in now is: it’s all related. 

But, to answer your question directly -- absolutely there were times. Why did I pay for this? Was this a waste of money and time? Those were things I thought about, but I’m teased in the office, because anytime a client has a vocal issue I will, like, perk up and everyone in the office just transfers me the call. (laughs) I love that. I can use that education to help our clients at CGF.  Another thing I’m so proud of is my relationship with voice teachers in NYC and how I’m able to connect our clients to the voice teachers that suit them based on my understanding of what they need. They really intersect beautifully. 

And that, I think, that’s the goal of most people. Finding a career and seeing if there is a way to intersect with whatever your passion or hobby they love doing. Even if it’s only occasionally. I mean, it’s called a job so no matter what it is there are gonna be days it really feels like one. Some of my closest friends and colleagues in the industry didn’t know what they wanted to do. They may have started out as actors, but have since become stage managers, or music directors, or company managers, or agents/managers. I think they trusted their gut and trusted what was given to them by the universe and continued to search from there. Who’s to say they are even done searching? 

Well, since we’ve wasted so much time on unscripted questions! Oh my god, we’re taking so much of your time! We’re getting back on track, I promise.

What’s been the biggest surprise of your career? 

Ironically, that I was good at this. It’s only been 5 years as a franchised agent. The first year was a lot of treading water. It was figuring it out, watching my bosses a lot, and learning contracts and rules. Then, you reach this level where that becomes easy and second nature to you. From there, it’s very important that you take that extra step. 

That extra step being, adding humanity, diligence, and humor. It’s realizing that what we do is ridiculous. We are brokering contracts and making agreements for people to go and play pretend. (laughs) I honestly wouldn’t change it for anything. There are days that I come home and say to Laura, “I feel like I agented today!” An example would be that an actor who I viewed was perfect for a job, wasn’t getting in. After reaching out to casting via a phone call, email, or four follow-ups: they agreed to see them and the actor gets the job! I love when this happens!  Sometimes I’ll get a follow-up email from casting saying, “I’m sorry I was annoyed with you. This person was perfect for the job!” (laughs) I then say, “I’m equally sorry for annoying you.” Those are good days and I think it’s when that extra step really holds true.

CGF has a reputation of developing great communication with exceptional talent. How do you describe a healthy and productive agent/client relationship?

It’s like I mentioned before, it’s a partnership. An actor is not in service of an agent and an agent is not in service of an actor. Everyone needs to pull their weight to have to be a successful relationship. There are a lot of offices out there and a lot of actors out there who don’t view it like that. Ultimately, I think those are usually the more unhappy relationships.

When you’re working with an agent or you’re working with a manager: it’s basically dating! You are choosing to be in this relationship, to confide in them, to trust in them, and to allow them to speak on your behalf professionally. It’s a very real relationship. Everyone needs to communicate and agree that they want the same things and see a way to get there. An agent is going to bring things to you and make decisions with you to build your career. If you don’t agree or have trouble communicating, that might not be the right fit. That’s why I think trusting your gut at your first meeting or initial introduction is so key. If we are going on a first “date” together and talking about you in the business, do you feel heard? Do you agree with what I’m saying? Do you think I see you the way you want to be seen? These are things to think about and ask yourself. First meetings are all about figuring each other out. Obviously it might take a minute to warm up to each other as we pick at our tuna tartare appetizer, but you should feel like you are collaborating with someone, not being dictated to or met with indifference. 

As an agent, I am not the one who has to make the decision, but I want to talk to you about ‘Column A’ and ‘Column B’ and why those things matter to you in making this decision. I realize that at the end of the day, you make the call. And no matter what I think personally, I will be your advocate. We talk about that a lot in our office. Our desire is for everyone in the partnership to be happy and feel heard. There are days we are successful and days that we are not, but that is something we really strive to do. 

Look, all agents are out there trying to find talented actors and get them jobs. We all offer different and unique experiences. There are times we lose clients or potential clients to much larger offices that make promises or incentivize them with opportunities. Whether they are telling the truth or not, some actors will go with them and that’s totally fine, it’s just the way it is. You can’t force someone to date you if they don’t want to. If there is one thing my middle school and high school dating life taught me it’s that. Ok, did I officially go too far on the dating analogy? (Laugh) Each agent and office are going to tell you different things and it’s up to you to decide what makes sense and is the right fit. I can tell you that one of my office's biggest strengths is the access to us. That’s something we can offer and something we really thrive on. You aren’t alone on your career path, and we are there to navigate and weather good times and bad with you.

At the onset of your career, how would you have defined success? Where you are now, has your definition changed?  

I think at the onset of my career and where I began, I viewed success the way a lot of people view it:  Am I known and important? Do people talk about me? Is it good things that they say? Can I brag about myself and my clients? Am I doing things that the industry thinks are impressive? Stuff like that. I think at the onset, you do that as a way to gauge this business and to measure the “agent” things you think you need to be successful at. I think those were traps I fell into. 

Recently, and by recently I mean a few years, I feel like I’ve been focusing on realizing that we are human beings and success should mean you are a well-rounded person, someone who can hear and listen to your needs, take the agent hat off, and be a person with the clients. 

And to think of who you’re choosing to surround yourself with. The best part of this city is there’s not a lack of people and not a lack of opportunities to care for yourself by making those choices. And that’s something Laura and I both strive for at all times is to be real people. There is no reason to be unapproachable, ever. There’s no reason to be false or fake. And you learn these things by failing,  by coming home and realizing, “I wasn’t a great person today” or “I lost my cool” and then saying, “I will strive to be better tomorrow.” And so, that is the new definition of success, but ultimately, when you have those goals in mind, the weight becomes more easily distributed and you do better at your job anyway.

Looking back, what’s one thing you would change?

So, if you’ve ever met me, you might agree that I’m weird with a dash of socially awkward. I have a stream of consciousness thinking process and sometimes that gets the better of me.  Looking back, I think I feared judgement on this and decided a very guarded approach was the “professional” way to go. It was not. I didn't allow myself to meet people who I should be interacting with--whether that was when I was an actor I was interested in working with or a business meal with an artistic director. I shied away from it. In our business, networking is a very important part of it. We’ve been very fortunate in our office that we’ve had very busy award seasons. But those come with a lot of these networking opportunities. They may be superficial and even pointless, but being seen and supporting your clients at these functions is a very important part of my job. I’ve gotten better at it, but it’s still something I need to watch and work on.  

Where are you on your mountain?

I’m just shy of half way, I think. It’s because there have been a lot of things to push me to where I am both upwards and downwards. Life lessons, losses, friendships, mentorships, all of that nonsense adds to the journey. Perspective is an amazing thing to think about because in the day to day, I don’t think about how far you’ve come. You just deal with the challenges and accomplishments as they come to you each day. Thinking about where I was a year ago, where I was two years ago, it was a very different place in all avenues of my life.  As far as using this mountain imagery, there’s a lot that I’ve accomplished and I know that there has been movement, but there’s a lot of movement to go and I don’t even know if I know where that will be. I know there is another phase or ‘thing’ that I have not quite grasped yet. That will be exciting to figure out.  I know I’ve come a long way and I have a long way to go.  And I'm certain someone or something will be throwing rocks at me while I climb.

How has Coronavirus changed your perspective on the business and/or your life? 

Ugh! It’s changed my perspective more than I ever could have possibly imagined. What our industry has gone through over the last 5-6 weeks is truly upsetting and very surprising. From a business standpoint, we are dealing with the immense challenge of not being able to gather together in an industry that requires that from all those who participate in it. Whether you’re seeing a Broadway show, watching a movie, shooting a TV series, or going to a concert, you are surrounded by dozens, hundreds, and thousands of actors, employees, and audience members who are also taking part in that experience. When you remove the ability to gather, you lose the industry on the whole immediately. 

Right now, everyone who celebrates and relies on this artform for income is doing all they can to breathe life back into it. This is a scary, but really inspiring thing. People are fighting for our business fiercely and in a multitude of ways. Casting is leading the charge by moving forward with some projects by way of self-tapes and virtual meetings with creative teams. Other full productions in development are having Zoom rehearsals and work sessions with the full casts to keep things moving forward. The voiceover world is still very much alive and they quickly adapted by sending equipment home with actors so they could continue to work professionally and safely in their own home. That is resilient and gives me hope. 

I personally think we should all embrace the new technology and use it as an opportunity to stay creative and improve while we work towards some semblance of our industry returning. I do think it’s important to mention that things will be different. I hear people throw around the term “normal” a lot and how when things go back to “normal.” It’s very important to realize that when we emerge on the other side of this, and we definitely will, it will be to a new normal with new ideas, protocols, and approaches, but that can still be a future to look forward to. 

RAPID FIRE:

Favorite Broadway show of all time: Take Me Out. Very excited about the revival! It was the first show I ever saw on Broadway.

TV show you binge: Tiger King, West World, The Great British Bake Off. To say we binge these shows is an understatement. 

On your commute, you’re listening to ________: More often than not, Laura! We get to ride the train together for a bit on our commute, so we talk on our way. On my walk to my office, I’m listening to Ben Rector.  He’s incredible  and basically sings about how all people in their mid-30’s are feeling about life on any given day.

Religious, Spiritual, or nah?: Religious, but I think spirituality goes with it. My faith is a part of who I am. My approach is and will always be an inclusive one--when I was younger that was very important to my mother, which greatly shaped my faith. People are people, they are unique and wonderful, they all get the same rights, and should be treated like people. We are all the same. As long as there is an inclusive approach to a faith or denomination, I’m open and in support of it.

Former side hustles: Bartender, catering, waiter, voice teacher, EMT, I even worked at a movie theatre. (Shout out: AMC Elmwood Plaza 8 in Lansing Michigan)

Having produced Steinhardt’s Musical Theatre showcase for several years...Your advice for someone heading into a showcase is _________: It is one audition. It is one showcase. It's an introduction that you are paying your school to give you. It will not matter after this. If it’s helpful, that’s great. If it’s not, that is fine also. If you crack/fall, no one will remember or care. Just treat it as an audition. I always try to focus on the person and find the song or piece that allows them to be them.  Don’t just focus on the newest material or how attractive you can look.  Nobody is better and being you, than you. Focus on that.

In a world where showcases don’t exist, what’s the best way to find an agent?: Referral through a Casting Director. Going back to that trust thing we talked about. If someone comes to me with a thought and I like and trust them, I will absolutely take the meeting.

Call or email?: Both, but it depends on what it’s for. If you email me, and I know you, you will get a response from me. That’s something I always strive to do. If you are calling, what are we talking about? Is it pressing? I mean, I’ll always take a phone call, it’s usually faster that way, but just be ready to chat about what’s on your mind.  If I don’t know you, don’t call...that would be weird. Send a submission to CGF’s submission email, we all check that when things come in.

Question you want to hear when meeting with an actor: I want them to ask, “where do you see me in this business?” We always ask that too, to see if we agree. We need to be on the same page. Another great question is “What about my work resonated with you and made you respond to me?”

Biggest beef with the business: Sometimes the most talented person does not get the job. Sometimes the right person does not get the job. That is frustrating. Things are not always fair.  That’s a hard realization. 

Social media handles?: @cgftalent is our instagram. I do not have a personal one, because I’m 100 years old and my life just isn't that interesting.

Anything you’d like to promote?: I teach a “Business of the Business” call through the Growing Studio a few times a year. I’m happy to recommend that. But honestly, my plug aside, I encourage every actor to be in class. Find a way to be creative. Seminars, accountability groups, coaching, teaching, whatever. I also always challenge those to take class in the areas they need the most improvement in. If you are an amazing singer, take an acting or dance class.  If you are Dame Judi Dench as an actor, maybe take some voice lessons, or movement classes.

From Kat: I suppose our first mentors always stick with us. I’m just lucky one of mine happens to be one of the kindest people out there. I worked with Yvan at The Price Group in my early days of being an intern. Yvan never treated me as an ‘intern’. He treated me with respect and welcomed my ideas. He was an instant friend and mentor for me.

Yvan has a unique story and he dives into some necessary topics. A goal of ours in creating this blog, is to be able to create a platform to have hard and messy conversations. We want to create a safe place to talk about things that are not always talked about. Yvan does just that. 

Why are unpaid internships the “buy-in” to agency/casting jobs? Why aren’t there more agents and casting directors who are people of color? What are aspects of improving your "eye for talent" we don’t often think about? Yvan is honest, vulnerable, and courageous to share his experience and opinion on every one of those topics. I'm lucky to have him as a mentor, friend, and educator. Peter and I hope you enjoy this feature as much as we did.

Yvan, you are from Burundi in East Africa. I know your story, but can you briefly tell us how you made your way to NYC? 

Well, I have always wanted to work in entertainment and the timing just sort of happened on a whim! My Aunt lives here, and I was finishing up school in Arizona, my lease was up, and I thought ‘why not?’ It was a last minute decision. There is plenty of opportunity here and I didn’t really know what I was doing next, so I made the leap. NYC was very scary to me, but I felt that I needed to go. I felt the same way when going to Arizona. I knew I needed to figure out what I wanted to do, and Arizona was the first school I got into. I had NO idea what was in Tucson, but I felt something telling me to go, so I went. It was a culture shock for me at nineteen but I am really glad I went.

You studied Media Arts at the University of Arizona. When leaving there, what job did you have in mind and what were your goals out of school? 

Yes! So my major was general studies, but we were able to choose topics that we wanted to study, so I chose Media Arts and Entertainment. As I mentioned, I always knew I wanted to work in entertainment. I was fascinated by TV as a kid - I jokingly say that TV raised me. I learned so much about the American culture from watching it. My dream job out of school (and still is) is to be the Director of Programming at a big network.  I’m a little unconventional in my background and in appearance, so I had no idea how to even get started in the industry. I knew I wanted to break in, but had zero connections. I’ll talk more about that in the next question!

What led you to the talent agency world? Can you talk to me about getting your first job at a talent agency? Was that a difficult task to break into the industry?

Yes! It was very difficult. I was this little queer kid from Africa was no connections! So I thought….internship! Landing an internship was pretty challenging. I think this was the first time I ever begged for a job (!). I interviewed with Avalon Artists Agency and basically told them my background and passion for TV. I asked them to watch me prove myself. It’s hard in the agency world because you have to have experience or connections to get into any interview rooms. They took a chance on me and I ended up interning at Avalon Artists Agency. This was an unpaid internship, which is pretty typical and NEEDS to change...which we will get to when we talk about diversity. This being said, I had other jobs while interning. So, I worked 3 days a week and then worked at Home Depot the other 4 days of the week. It was hard, but just what I had to do. 

You established yourself quickly when working at The Price Group, where you were able to climb from Assistant to Jr Agent. What was the best thing about working at a talent agency?

The best part about working at a talent agency is interacting with the actors. They are my favorite people to interact with. That interaction gives you a taste of what actors are like in real life vs what you see on TV. You see the real human and their core. I loved seeing their careers take shape. I also loved that it is performance based. It was for me to lose or win. It was up to me to find success or to fail. I love that. Once I had the job, I found that it wasn’t important what your background was or who you knew- it was about the work you put out, the shows you booked, and the roster you created. 

Theatre and television are considered frontrunners on diversifying who gets opportunities. It’s no mystery, however, that casting and agency diversity is way behind. Did you ever feel out of place as an agent of color? What would you recommend to get more POC presence on the agency side of things?

Yes, I absolutely did. I would go to showcases and would actually be the only agent who was a person of color at the showcase.  Actors always commented on that too when we would have meetings. It was noticeable. I think money and background plays a big part. Who can afford to take a full time internship and not go into debt? Not many people of color can be supported by their parents and take an unpaid internship for a year without having two jobs on the side. It makes it much harder to climb the ladder. The crazy thing is that these unpaid internships are super competitive to get, and it’s common to string along a few internships in a row to get more experience to be considered for an ‘assistant’ position.

It’s also difficult because when doing these internships, it’s hard to see Broadway shows! How do you get a ‘better eye’ for talent, stay ‘in the know’, and network when you can’t afford to see shows? You miss out on that because you don’t have the money or the time because you are working two jobs on top of your unpaid internship. Oh and seeing showcases at night. 

The industry loves to talk to itself and not make a big change. They love to hype the token, but the purpose of diversity is that we shouldn’t stand out. We have come so far but we have a long way to go. I don’t think I know the answer, but that was my experience. 

You are now working for an Entertainment Law firm in Midtown. What led you to take that leap into that facet of the industry from agenting? 

To be honest…..we all know and have experienced that this industry can be really hard! It’s amazing, but also really challenging. It was taking a toll on me mentally and I was craving a healthy work life balance. I turned 30 and thought ‘wow, I need to take care of my mental health and not focus so much on work.’ I took the step because this door really opened up and so I just took that leap of faith, like I had done before. I can happily say, I am in a much better mind space and my bank account is thankful for it too. 

How do you define success in this industry? 

I struggle answering that, because I don’t know what that looks like yet. I’m very content, but I don’t think I have the answer of what success looks like for millennials behind the scenes in entertainment. I guess I would say success is when you love your job and you love your life at the same time. To create change. For me, I want to leave doors open for someone to come behind me to have an opportunity. I feel like I see so many people shut doors and opportunities for people coming up, and that is not a leader. I hope to create change for kids from all backgrounds who don’t fit the mold. It’s a hard road, so I want to leave a path that is clear for the kids coming up behind me. I don’t think until I figure out how to do that, that I can claim success. I also want to maintain my integrity while ‘playing the game’. I try to not have rules on myself of how this has to look like, because this is going to look different for everyone. We are all going to have a different journey.

Where are you on your mountain?

I am at the base! I am further along than I expected and am at a place where the fog is starting to clear. I can see the top but I’m figuring out how to start the mountain. I want to figure out the best path and not show up at the summit completely bruised and broken. I’m on the way!

RAPID FIRE: 

Favorite Broadway show? Something Rotten! It was my first Broadway show.

Religious, Spiritutal, or nah? Mix of everything. Religious, spiritual and I have doubts!

TV show you binge: Schitts Creek, Big Mouth, Modern Love

Podcasts you love: It changes per season but right now, ‘Keep it’ is my fav. 

Former Side Hustles? Home Depot

Advice to someone looking for an agent? It’s a relationship, so take it as seriously as dating! Date a lot of people and pick the person that is best for you. All agents have the same goal- to find you work, but each agent has a different way of doing that. Find what works for you. Lastly, be yourself. I loved seeing something different- quirky!

Biggest actor pet peeve? ‘My friend so and so booked..’ Don’t focus on someone elses journey! You will have your own wonderful journey.

Biggest beef with the industry? When the industry talks about change, but doesn’t make change. We can’t keep talking to ourselves. 

Thing that inspires you: I’m the kid who wasn’t supposed to be here. The fact that I’m still alive and healthy helps me do this!

Social media handles? @yvanofnewyork

Anything you’d like to promote? Treat people how you want to be treated.

From Kat: Mallory was my first real buddy in the agency world. She’s everything that you would want in a friend and in an agent. She’s genuine- both when she praises you and when she has to shoot you straight. She’s inspiring- both in the way she’ll lift you up when you’re down and the way she’ll attack her business. And she’s funny- whether that’s making you laugh at the mundane or need to blow off steam after a long work week.

I admire her for many different reasons that I think you’ll be able to see in this interview. She’s climbing mountains quickly, while still leaving room to change course and make the smart decision. We’re catching her at an exciting time in her growth at DDO, so we’ll let her take you into the world of those who hit ‘submit’.

Mallory! We’re honored to have you launch the Agent portion of our blog. Would you briefly introduce yourself to our readers?:

Hi! My name is Mallory Levy and I am the director of the Youth Division at DDO Artists Agency in New York. I have been with DDO for almost 2 years now (wow). I work on everything for the kiddos (TV, Film, Commercial, Theatre, a little bit of print). We also have a great voiceover division that covers my kids as well as the adults. I’m from a lil old town called Long Island, New York = I lived on Long Island until I went to college up in Albany! Once I finished up college I moved to Manhattan and have been living in NYC ever since (well more specifically Long Island City) shoutout to my neighbors Kat and Peter. 

You went to the University of Albany….Can you tell us how you ended up there and how it impacted your career?

So, when I graduated High School I didn’t really know what I want I wanted to do! I had been involved in theatre my whole life so I knew my passion would be in the entertainment world, but I was never focused towards anything specific. When I got to Albany, I majored in something super generic (business) which I hated, then switched to communications…which I also ended up hating! I finally ended up majoring in Sociology, which is basically the study of people. All the while minoring in theatre. My second year into college my friend Kait and I decided to start a musical theatre association, primarily because Albany didn’t offer musical theatre as a major. We wanted people who were passionate about MT like us to have an outlet for their creativity! Starting the club was probably my biggest accomplishment at the university as well as what I learned the most from. Not only did we put together three full scale musicals during my time there but we produced, cast, and directed all of them. I learned the most valuable tools about business, marketing, self-starting etc from the club. 

What led you to become an Agent? What were the things you did in the first year to help you start out?

I had applied for an internship on Entertainment Careers (plug for Entertainment Careers that website is INVALUABLE- I promise they didn’t pay me to say that) at a casting agency right out of college and landed a gig at Barbara McNamara casting working on extras casting! The biggest show they worked on exclusively was casting the extras for 30 Rock. We would receive the strangest specs to fill for that show. Female balloon artists, people who could walk on stilts while juggling etc. Walking in to this internship, I had ZERO idea about the Agency world. I would deal with agents every once and a while at the internship and I was super curious as to how that world worked. The only agent I knew was Ari Gold from Entourage ; ).

After about 2 months at Barbara McNamara I was connected through a family friend to the team at Innovative Artists. They were currently filling two positions, assistant to the beauty division and mailroom associate. I had about four different interviews with the team. I literally laughed at the HR women when she told me I was being considered for a mailroom position because I had NO idea that role actually existed. In reality, that is typically where ALL industry professionals start in this world. Goes to show how little I actually knew about all of this. I was lucky enough to snag the assistant position and it all snowballed from there! 

In my first year, I worked with models exclusively for commercials. Although it was only 7 years ago, the market for beauty commercials was SO different. A model could easy make $125k on one beauty campaign. It was an extremely lucrative division to be a part of. Nowadays, the beauty world has changed so drastically it’s basically impossible for a model to make a living on commercial work. I learned SO much from working at Innovative. I was an assistant to two agents who were SO incredibly different. Looking back it was so great to have worked for such two different agents because I was able to take what I respected and admired from each and apply it to how I agent today. It showed me that two completely different agents could find success in this business working basically opposite. 

Was there ever a moment where you questioned this career path? If so, how did you get through that time?

100%. More than one moment FOR SURE. I think that’s normal though. I seriously question this business when I run into people who aren’t genuine. I really try to run my business with integrity and honor and when I see people who are shady, who cut corners, or who will step on whoever to get to the top, its V frustrating. I understand that it’s probably the case in most industries but our business is SO cutthroat. I think unfortunately, people will backstab you or say things behind your back and make you seem like you’re not doing the right thing to get ahead. At the end of the day, this doesn’t really benefit anybody. You don’t look good gossiping and talking about other people and obviously the person you’re speaking about won’t look good. I try to lead with as much positivity as possible because I think at the end of the day people see right through you in this industry. The good ones know who are in it for the right reasons (Bachelor quote for the win). At the same time I have met so many amazing people along the way which pull me back in every time. 

What’s the most important thing you’ve done in your career so far? 

I guess seeing potential in a kid and perhaps being the ONLY person who sees that potential. Nurturing that talent, believing in them and then finding them success is the best feeling. It’s so important to believe in talent you feel passionately about no matter where they come from. The saying “it’s who you know” truly applies to this industry in both positive and negative ways. I could care less where somebody comes from. If I find a client off the street and think they are talented, girl you better believe that kid is going on my roster! Everybody enters our office on an equal playing field. 

You are a rockstar and work on theatre, tv/film, commercials, and print. Can you talk about the biggest differences when working on them? What do you prefer to be negotiating on?

Commercials are a really quick turnaround. I get a breakdown and its cast and shot within two weeks. TV/Film/Theatre is a super drawn-out process. We may not find out about callbacks or bookings until months later.  It makes it difficult to get kids excited about the tv/film/theatre because they like that instant satisfaction of a commercial or VO booking. They get to see the finished products very quickly and the process tends to be way easier. 

I personally prefer to negotiate theatre jobs. Theatre is my passion, it is what I did my whole life. Unfortunately for kids, theatre isn’t as prominent as the other categories. 

At the onset of your career, what was the definition of success you were aspiring to achieve? Now, where you are at, how do you describe your success?

My idea of success at the beginning of my career was that I needed to be an agent at one of the top three agencies in the country. That was going to be my pinnacle of success. I started this career so young that for me, if I played my cards right, this was something that was totally attainable down the line. Since then things have TOTALLY shifted for me. I’ve worked at two really large agencies and have also worked at two smaller/mid-size agencies. I really like the idea of having the independence and the freedom to grow and develop a division at a smaller or mid-size agency. You don’t really get that freedom with the larger agencies. There is a hierarchy and you better believe you follow their rules to a tee.   You don’t necessarily have that creativity. Whereas with midsize agencies you are able to agent as you see fit. In my situation right now, If I feel like a certain tactic or way of agenting works better for me I am able to test the waters and kind of develop. So right now, my definition of success is growing this division, building our roster, having them be successful, happy, and being able to say that we have a thriving business.  

What’s something you wish you had done or wish you had known earlier?

I wish I hadn’t let certain people I’ve worked with or for in the past affect how I feel about the industry. I didn’t like working with people that made me feel like ‘because I disliked them, i disliked the industry.’ I had to take a step back and think to myself... “Do I hate this because of this person or do I hate this because of the actual job”. When I really thought long and hard or left those people to go somewhere else, I realized that I love this, I know I love this, I just allowed those people to negatively affect me. I wish I had been able to say to myself ‘don’t allow those people to dictate how you feel about the industry or allow them to tell you how good you are at what you do.’ Those people aren’t here to build you up. They have their own insecurities. Whatever negativity they spew at you is probably just insecurities they have with themselves. 

Are you at the top of your mountain?

No, I don’t think so. I think I don’t give myself enough credit for what I have accomplished thus far. I am VERY hard on myself. I always feel like it’s never enough. “Should I have already done something, should I be working that extra hour, should I have called that person to pitch again, etc, etc”. I think stepping back I have to give myself credit for what I have done and where I have been so far. If you overthink the “what ifs” you’ll end up in a negative spiral. There is definitely still a lot to do and there’s a lot of room to grow. I see a lot of really cool things down the line for myself in this industry. There is always room to grow. But I am also proud of all my accomplishments. 

RAPID FIRE!

Favorite Broadway show of all time: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

TV show that you love: Friends….duh

Favorite music on your commute: Show Tunes or Podcasts specifically Armchair Expert

Any other obsessions?: My Dog Luna. She is an inspiration to us all. So confident and doesn’t give a damn about what ANYBODY says = ) TV, Cooking, Food, Theatre

Social media is ________: A necessary evil 

Religious, Spiritual, or nah?: Nah

Actor-ism that frustrates you: How much room do I have to write? JK. Comparing their career to their friend’s careers. 

Call or Email?: Depends on the situation. I hate getting 6-page emails. If it’s a quick thing like a book out or confirm totally email me. If it requires a conversation, get on the phone!

Biggest beef with the business: 1) People who refuse to change with the times. 2) People who aren’t open to new ideas or the ideas of others 3) People who do things in a shady way to try and get to the top 

Favorite part about working at DDO? I love the freedom I have to grow the division. I love that we are current with all the really cool ways of marketing our clients on social media. We just implemented some great new programs for social media. Check us out: DDOKids (shameless plug). Social is the main way people research agencies and learn about them so I love how ahead of times we are with it.  

If you have kids, will they be child actors? NO

Hardest part of being an agent?: Competition babayyy

I get inspired when _______: I get super excited about a client. When I see a kid at a showcase or workshop and they just have that X factor. That is so exciting

Anything you’d like to promote?:  OUR INSTAGRAM!!!! DDOkids. My personal Instagram sucks… It’s basically playbills and my dog so don’t bother following me there.

Interview by: Kat Hargrave

From Peter: To get our blog started off, Kat and I decided to interview each other. 

Kat and I met way back in 2008 (that’s over a DECADE ago) while we were in college at Abilene Christian University. We made out in my car in January of 2010 after I broke up with my girlfriend (like, literally, hours after). We’ve been doing life together since then, making it official in November of 2013. I’ve seen her be a waiter, a performer, and now, on her path to becoming an agent. She’s fearlessly brave, persistent, and the best listener I know. 

Thanks for doing this! Will you introduce yourself: Hey y’all! (yep, I still say y’all). I was born and raised in Sugar Land, TX, a suburb of Houston. I saw Sutton Foster in Thoroughly Modern Millie when I was 12 and couldn’t get enough. I went to Abilene Christian University and got my BFA in Musical Theatre. After college, I worked at Flat Rock Playhouse as an apprentice and, from there, moved straight to NYC. As a performer, I worked at Hong Kong Disneyland for several years, Disney Cruise Line, and a few different regional theatres. In 2018, after moving back to NYC from Cleveland, OH where I was for my husband’s grad school, I made the switch to the agency side of things. I interned at The Price Group, was an assistant at DDO Artists Agency, and now am an Associate Agent at Harden Curtis Kirsten Riley. 

From your note, and, you know... because we’re married, I know you didn’t always dream of becoming an agent. What changed? 

Yeah, it’s funny. Like I say, my first goal was to be on Broadway. I fell out of love with performing pretty quickly after coming to NYC. It made me anxious. I absolutely hated auditioning. I just wasn’t as obsessed with the craft of acting as other people were. Somewhere during our Disney cruise contract, I remember looking at you (Peter) and saying “I just want to play Natalie in Next to Normal and Ariel. Beyond that, I don’t really want to be a performer anymore.” Serendipitously, I got to play those two parts- Next to Normal at a local theatre in Cleveland and then I went back to Hong Kong Disneyland to play Ariel. I imagine a lot of people don’t get to have the closure with performing I did. But, like, the SECOND I got the call about Hong Kong- I knew it would be my last gig. 

I danced around a lot about other things I would like to do. My in-laws are marital therapists and I entertained that thought for a second. But I knew I would miss the business. While I was in Hong Kong in 2017, I just had this moment where I thought, “Being an agent is everything I want to do. I love talking to people, I love organizing schedules, and I want to have a front-row seat for people achieving dreams.” 

What were the things you did the first year trying to break into the agency world? 

It was tough. I didn’t know anybody that had made the transition I was trying to make and it would’ve helped A LOT if I knew a few more people on this side of the business. But: 

1) Get an internship. I was SO lucky I had some Disney money to help get me through the three months I worked for $100 a week. And I was lucky to find an internship that didn’t automatically go to a student.

2) Write specific cover letters. I would spend hours looking at people’s websites, Instagrams, anything I could find to cater my CV to the person that would be interviewing me.

3) I had to make some hard decisions at several points during my first year. One was not settling for a salary I couldn’t support my family with. The second was trying to move divisions. I always wanted to be a “legit agent”, covering Theatre, TV/Film. My first job at DDO was in the Voiceover division. I slowly pushed to become the assistant in their commercial/film division and then I made the leap to HCKR. I’m an associate at a legit desk, but that took almost a year to come to fruition. I’m glad I had the patience to stick with it, but I always wish I would have landed at a legit desk earlier. 

What’s your favorite part of being an agent? 

At it’s best, it’s everything that made me want to do it. I’m still obsessed with theatre and different people in the business. Now, some of those people are folks I talk to every week. (Recently, Tara Rubin called our office and asked to talk to me... I almost dropped the phone.) And, best of all, the times I get to call out jobs to actors. Specifically, the jobs that are life-changing. 

Did you always know you wanted to be in NYC? 

Absolutely, 100% NO. Before I got my first acting job, I spent a year and a half waiting tables at Applebee’s. New York is hard and that really got to me. When we moved in 2014, I didn’t think we’d ever come back. The thing that we did really well, looking back on it, was listening to our guts. After the cruise ship, we lived in LA for a few months before your (Peter’s) grad school. I took an office job in Cleveland when I had no clue what I wanted to do. Then, when we sat down in 2017 and talked about coming back... it just felt right. NYC is still hard and my job can still be overwhelming, but now it feels like the place I WANT to be. 

Looking back, what’s one thing you would change? 

One thing? Sometimes it feels like I would change a lot... 

The overriding thing I would change is my addiction to the narratives in my head. When I decided I didn’t want to perform anymore, I decided that I would leave the business entirely because “I didn’t have enough connections.” It was true, I didn’t have many. They were the same ones I had, however, when I started the journey four years later. I’ve seen over and over in my life the narratives I have in my head have limited or delayed my potential. May I stop doing that moving forward... 

Are you at the top of your mountain? 

Not yet! I LOVE what I’m doing right now and think I’ll be doing it for a long time. But it’s not the “end goal” yet. Most notably, I’ll need the experience to make the leap to a franchised agent. What I love about my job right now, though, is that I'm learning a ton and surer than ever that I’m on the right path. Now all I have to do is enjoy the journey! 

RAPID FIRE! 

What’s your favorite Broadway show?: Right now, Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.

Favorite TV show: Veep

Call or email?: Email!

Religious or nah?: I am!

Name your former side hustles: Waiting tables, catering, hiring medical coders (Like, what?), nannying, babysitting.

Actor question you’re sick of: How many of “me” are on your roster? Valid question, but... try and look it up on IMDBpro!

Your favorite Casting Director to work with is: As if I’m going to tell you that...

Biggest beef with the business: Certain schools get certain auditions.

I have enough money for one class: Bob Krakower at One on One.

How do I get a meeting with you?: Hopefully, you know a client of ours, mention them in your “short and sweet” email and attach video your materials (it doesn’t always have to be a professional reel, but it helps SO much if we have SOMETHING.)

Tip for my meeting: Try not to be nervous! You’re human, we’re human. I’m trying to achieve my dream too! Maybe you’re the person that helps ME do that. (Just be realistic in your goals!)

Anything you’d like to promote: I mean... I hear there’s a really interesting blog coming out...

Interview by Peter Hargrave